16 Oct
2014
16 Oct
'14
1:44 p.m.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:47:14 +0100
From: A. R. Madabushi <armadabushi(a)gmail.com>
To: Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi Carl thanks for the info!
The film is currently a DPX sequence in Resolve that was rendered in P3 colour space
already. My DCP program doesn’t allow me to passthrough the file as
is, without performing an XYZ transform…which means I just need to make sure the DCP
output looks the same as the DPX sequence.
If I export TIFFs from Resolve with an XYZ LUT applied, the DCP program will end up doing
it again - so that’s XYZ conversion done TWICE, which I want to
avoid.
I found this site:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_RGB_XYZ_Matrix.html
…and given the info Carsten sent through I could make it…IF I understood how to do this
kind of maths!
If I can figure out the maths - I could make it work! So CLOSE!!!
On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:38, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:03:08 +0200
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: DCP-o-matic carlh net <DCPomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix
Maybe this helps in creating a matrix:
DCI-P3
Gamma 2.6
White point
x 0.314
y 0.351
Red
x 0.680
y 0.320
Green
x 0.265
y 0.690
Blue
x 0.150
y 0.060
From what I understand now, xyz is the storage format within the DCP, while P3 is
the color space used by DCI projector itself. When a server
plays a DCP,
it transmits xyz to the projector. The projector will convert to and show P3.
In a grading situation with a projector connected directly to the grading
workstation for realtime playout, the xyz conversion is omited and P3
is played
directly from the grading workstation into the projector. A DCI projector therefore
needs at least two different input profiles - P3 1:1, or
xyz->P3.
Now if you say you have a file sitting in P3 color space - what does that mean? Is
it the color space associated with the editing project, or
do you have a
file rendered out in P3 - if so, which container/codec?
- Carsten
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
16 Oct
16 Oct
2:26 p.m.
New subject: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hmm, P3 is RGB. XYZ is XYZ.
Question, do we find a way to solve this quickly in DCP-o-matic (that is, can we create a
dependable P3->XYZ conversion matrix), or should we suggest an alternative way to get
the work done? Because I am sure it should be possible to output plain TIFF in sRGB from
Resolve even if the project is worked on in P3, and then feed them through DCP-o-matic
with the standard sRGB-XYZ conversion.
Another issue, depending on the source material, project settings and quality approach, is
again the 8Bit issue, especially when coming from Resolve. Any news regarding this, Carl?
Which version of Resolve is he using - platform, and version number? The recent versions
offer an EasyDCP module. This costs some money, but at least it would solve the possible
8Bit limitation NOW, if that is a real issue. (sorry Carl)
In fact I digged up some sites and documents regarding colour conversion and color spaces
during the last two days. My, I do have some basic understanding from my former studies,
but I guess this all needs a lot more to fully understand all issues, and then there are
still individual software implications and limitations.
- Carsten
Am 16.10.2014 um 15:44 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:47:14 +0100
From: A. R. Madabushi <armadabushi(a)gmail.com>
To: Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi Carl thanks for the info!
The film is currently a DPX sequence in Resolve that was rendered in P3 colour space
already. My DCP program doesn’t allow me to passthrough the file as
is, without performing an XYZ transform…which means I just need to make sure the DCP
output looks the same as the DPX sequence.
If I export TIFFs from Resolve with an XYZ LUT applied, the DCP program will end up doing
it again - so that’s XYZ conversion done TWICE, which I want to
avoid.
I found this site:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_RGB_XYZ_Matrix.html
…and given the info Carsten sent through I could make it…IF I understood how to do this
kind of maths!
If I can figure out the maths - I could make it work! So CLOSE!!!
On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:38, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:03:08 +0200
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: DCP-o-matic carlh net <DCPomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix
Maybe this helps in creating a matrix:
DCI-P3
Gamma 2.6
White point
x 0.314
y 0.351
Red
x 0.680
y 0.320
Green
x 0.265
y 0.690
Blue
x 0.150
y 0.060
From what I understand now, xyz is the storage format within the DCP, while P3 is
the color space used by DCI projector itself. When a server
plays a DCP,
it transmits xyz to the projector. The projector will convert to and show P3.
In a grading situation with a projector connected directly to the grading
workstation for realtime playout, the xyz conversion is omited and P3
is played
directly from the grading workstation into the projector. A DCI projector therefore
needs at least two different input profiles - P3 1:1, or
xyz->P3.
Now if you say you have a file sitting in P3 color space - what does that mean? Is
it the color space associated with the editing project, or
do you have a
file rendered out in P3 - if so, which container/codec?
- Carsten
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
2:39 p.m.
New subject: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
An image sequence with proper color, already in XYZ and all! looks
like a clear opendcp workflow to me.
Can someone please refresh when dcpomatic work in 8-bit? other than
from 8-bit sources. I hope is not always.
Thanks!
Manuel AC
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de> wrote:
Hmm, P3 is RGB. XYZ is XYZ.
Question, do we find a way to solve this quickly in DCP-o-matic (that is, can we create a
dependable P3->XYZ conversion matrix), or should we suggest an alternative way to get
the work done? Because I am sure it should be possible to output plain TIFF in sRGB from
Resolve even if the project is worked on in P3, and then feed them through DCP-o-matic
with the standard sRGB-XYZ conversion.
Another issue, depending on the source material, project settings and quality approach,
is again the 8Bit issue, especially when coming from Resolve. Any news regarding this,
Carl?
Which version of Resolve is he using - platform, and version number? The recent versions
offer an EasyDCP module. This costs some money, but at least it would solve the possible
8Bit limitation NOW, if that is a real issue. (sorry Carl)
In fact I digged up some sites and documents regarding colour conversion and color spaces
during the last two days. My, I do have some basic understanding from my former studies,
but I guess this all needs a lot more to fully understand all issues, and then there are
still individual software implications and limitations.
- Carsten
Am 16.10.2014 um 15:44 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:47:14 +0100
From: A. R. Madabushi <armadabushi(a)gmail.com>
To: Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi Carl thanks for the info!
The film is currently a DPX sequence in Resolve that was rendered in P3 colour space
already. My DCP program doesn’t allow me to passthrough the file as
is, without performing an XYZ transform…which means I just need to make sure the DCP
output looks the same as the DPX sequence.
If I export TIFFs from Resolve with an XYZ LUT applied, the DCP program will end up doing
it again - so that’s XYZ conversion done TWICE, which I want to
avoid.
I found this site:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_RGB_XYZ_Matrix.html
…and given the info Carsten sent through I could make it…IF I understood how to do this
kind of maths!
If I can figure out the maths - I could make it work! So CLOSE!!!
On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:38, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:03:08 +0200
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: DCP-o-matic carlh net <DCPomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix
Maybe this helps in creating a matrix:
DCI-P3
Gamma 2.6
White point
x 0.314
y 0.351
Red
x 0.680
y 0.320
Green
x 0.265
y 0.690
Blue
x 0.150
y 0.060
From what I understand now, xyz is the storage format within the DCP, while P3 is
the color space used by DCI projector itself. When a server
plays a DCP,
it transmits xyz to the projector. The projector will convert to and show P3.
In a grading situation with a projector connected directly to the grading
workstation for realtime playout, the xyz conversion is omited and P3
is played
directly from the grading workstation into the projector. A DCI projector therefore
needs at least two different input profiles - P3 1:1, or
xyz->P3.
Now if you say you have a file sitting in P3 color space - what does that mean? Is
it the color space associated with the editing project, or
do you have a
file rendered out in P3 - if so, which container/codec?
- Carsten
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
20 Oct
20 Oct
11:21 p.m.
New subject: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi Manuel,
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014, Manuel AC wrote:
An image sequence with proper color, already in XYZ
and all! looks
like a clear opendcp workflow to me.
Can someone please refresh when dcpomatic work in 8-bit? other than
from 8-bit sources. I hope is not always.
With 1.76.0 and earlier, I'm afraid it's always. Deep-colour use of
DCP-o-matic crept up on me a bit! Experimental support for full 12-bit
colour is in 1.76.2, if anyone would like to test:
http://dcpomatic.com/test-download
Best regards,
Carl
Thanks!
Manuel AC
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de> wrote:
Hmm, P3 is RGB. XYZ is XYZ.
Question, do we find a way to solve this quickly in DCP-o-matic (that is, can we create a
dependable P3->XYZ conversion matrix), or should we suggest an alternative way to get
the work done? Because I am sure it should be possible to output plain TIFF in sRGB from
Resolve even if the project is worked on in P3, and then feed them through DCP-o-matic
with the standard sRGB-XYZ conversion.
Another issue, depending on the source material, project settings and quality approach,
is again the 8Bit issue, especially when coming from Resolve. Any news regarding this,
Carl?
Which version of Resolve is he using - platform, and version number? The recent versions
offer an EasyDCP module. This costs some money, but at least it would solve the possible
8Bit limitation NOW, if that is a real issue. (sorry Carl)
In fact I digged up some sites and documents regarding colour conversion and color spaces
during the last two days. My, I do have some basic understanding from my former studies,
but I guess this all needs a lot more to fully understand all issues, and then there are
still individual software implications and limitations.
- Carsten
Am 16.10.2014 um 15:44 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:47:14 +0100
From: A. R. Madabushi <armadabushi(a)gmail.com>
To: Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi Carl thanks for the info!
The film is currently a DPX sequence in Resolve that was rendered in P3 colour space
already. My DCP program doesn’t allow me to passthrough the file as
is, without performing an XYZ transform…which means I just need to make sure the DCP
output looks the same as the DPX sequence.
If I export TIFFs from Resolve with an XYZ LUT applied, the DCP program will end up doing
it again - so that’s XYZ conversion done TWICE, which I want to
avoid.
I found this site:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_RGB_XYZ_Matrix.html
…and given the info Carsten sent through I could make it…IF I understood how to do this
kind of maths!
If I can figure out the maths - I could make it work! So CLOSE!!!
On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:38, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:03:08 +0200
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: DCP-o-matic carlh net <DCPomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix
Maybe this helps in creating a matrix:
DCI-P3
Gamma 2.6
White point
x 0.314
y 0.351
Red
x 0.680
y 0.320
Green
x 0.265
y 0.690
Blue
x 0.150
y 0.060
From what I understand now, xyz is the storage format within the DCP, while P3 is
the color space used by DCI projector itself. When a server
plays a DCP,
it transmits xyz to the projector. The projector will convert to and show P3.
In a grading situation with a projector connected directly to the grading
workstation for realtime playout, the xyz conversion is omited and P3
is played
directly from the grading workstation into the projector. A DCI projector therefore
needs at least two different input profiles - P3 1:1, or
xyz->P3.
Now if you say you have a file sitting in P3 color space - what does that mean? Is
it the color space associated with the editing project, or
do you have a
file rendered out in P3 - if so, which container/codec?
- Carsten
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
21 Nov
21 Nov
3:42 p.m.
New subject: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi all,
Finally getting back to this!
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 16:26:53 +0200
Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de> wrote:
Hmm, P3 is RGB. XYZ is XYZ.
Question, do we find a way to solve this quickly in DCP-o-matic (that
is, can we create a dependable P3->XYZ conversion matrix), or should
we suggest an alternative way to get the work done? Because I am sure
it should be possible to output plain TIFF in sRGB from Resolve even
if the project is worked on in P3, and then feed them through
DCP-o-matic with the standard sRGB-XYZ conversion.
I would have thought so, yes...
Another issue, depending on the source material,
project settings and
quality approach, is again the 8Bit issue, especially when coming
from Resolve. Any news regarding this, Carl?
Which version of Resolve is he using - platform, and version number?
The recent versions offer an EasyDCP module. This costs some money,
but at least it would solve the possible 8Bit limitation NOW, if that
is a real issue. (sorry Carl)
All 8-bit limitations should be gone in 1.76.x test versions and hence
in 1.77.0 when it is released.
Cheers,
Carl
In fact I digged up some sites and documents regarding
colour
conversion and color spaces during the last two days. My, I do have
some basic understanding from my former studies, but I guess this all
needs a lot more to fully understand all issues, and then there are
still individual software implications and limitations.
- Carsten
Am 16.10.2014 um 15:44 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
--
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:47:14 +0100
From: A. R. Madabushi <armadabushi(a)gmail.com>
To: Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi Carl thanks for the info!
The film is currently a DPX sequence in Resolve that was rendered
in P3 colour space already. My DCP program doesn’t allow me to
passthrough the file as is, without performing an XYZ transform…
which means I just need to make sure the DCP output looks the same
as the DPX sequence.
If I export TIFFs from Resolve with an XYZ LUT applied, the DCP
program will end up doing it again - so that’s XYZ conversion done
TWICE, which I want to avoid.
I found this site:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_RGB_XYZ_Matrix.html
…and given the info Carsten sent through I could make it…IF I
understood how to do this kind of maths!
If I can figure out the maths - I could make it work! So CLOSE!!!
On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:38, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:03:08 +0200
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: DCP-o-matic carlh net <DCPomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix
Maybe this helps in creating a matrix:
DCI-P3
Gamma 2.6
White point
x 0.314
y 0.351
Red
x 0.680
y 0.320
Green
x 0.265
y 0.690
Blue
x 0.150
y 0.060
From what I understand now, xyz is the storage format within
the DCP, while P3 is the color space used by DCI projector itself.
When a server plays a DCP, it transmits xyz to the projector. The
projector will convert to and show P3.
In a grading situation with a projector connected directly to
the grading workstation for realtime playout, the xyz conversion is
omited and P3 is played directly from the grading workstation into
the projector. A DCI projector therefore needs at least two
different input profiles - P3 1:1, or xyz->P3.
Now if you say you have a file sitting in P3 color space -
what does that mean? Is it the color space associated with the
editing project, or do you have a file rendered out in P3 - if so,
which container/codec?
- Carsten
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
3:46 p.m.
New subject: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix (fwd)
Hi there,
Sorry I lost track of this question for a while!
Hi Carl thanks for the info!
The film is currently a DPX sequence in Resolve that was rendered in
P3 colour space already. My DCP program doesn’t allow me to
passthrough the file as is, without performing an XYZ transform…which
means I just need to make sure the DCP output looks the same as the
DPX sequence.
If I export TIFFs from Resolve with an XYZ LUT applied, the DCP
program will end up doing it again - so that’s XYZ conversion done
TWICE, which I want to avoid.
Are you talking about using DCP-o-matic here? I'm a bit confused.
With new versions of DCP-o-matic you can turn off colourspace
conversion, so you could import XYZ and keep it the same for the DCP.
Am I misunderstanding?
Cheers,
Carl
I found this site:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_RGB_XYZ_Matrix.html
…and given the info Carsten sent through I could make it…IF I
understood how to do this kind of maths!
If I can figure out the maths - I could make it work! So CLOSE!!!
On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:38, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:03:08 +0200
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: DCP-o-matic carlh net <DCPomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DCP-o-matic] P3 to XYZ conversion matrix
Maybe this helps in creating a matrix:
DCI-P3
Gamma 2.6
White point
x 0.314
y 0.351
Red
x 0.680
y 0.320
Green
x 0.265
y 0.690
Blue
x 0.150
y 0.060
From what I understand now, xyz is the storage format within
the DCP, while P3 is the color space used by DCI projector itself.
When a server plays a DCP, it transmits xyz to the projector. The
projector will convert to and show P3.
In a grading situation with a projector connected directly to
the grading workstation for realtime playout, the xyz conversion is
omited and P3 is played directly from the grading workstation into
the projector. A DCI projector therefore needs at least two different
input profiles - P3 1:1, or xyz->P3.
Now if you say you have a file sitting in P3 color space - what
does that mean? Is it the color space associated with the editing
project, or do you have a file rendered out in P3 - if so, which
container/codec?
- Carsten
_______________________________________________
DCPomatic mailing list
DCPomatic(a)carlh.net
http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic
--
3811
days inactive
3847
days old
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Carl Hetherington -
Carsten Kurz -
Manuel AC -
Wolfgang Woehl