[DCP-o-matic] Re-using source video with re-encoding

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Tom Haines

18 Jun 2018 18 Jun '18

4:33 p.m.

Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still re-encodes each instance of the source video. -- TOM HAINES Screenings | Originals Publicity M: 310.467.3069 | thaines(a)netflix.com 5808 W. Sunset Blvd, 5th fl | Los Angeles, CA 90028 <https://maps.google.com/?q=5808+W.+Sunset+Blvd,+5th+fl+%7C+Los+Angeles,+CA+90028&entry=gmail&source=g>

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iva_co

18 Jun 18 Jun

5:10 p.m.

As far as I know there is no option of this. Probably you should create feature request for this option 18 июня 2018, 19:34:19, от "Tom Haines via DCPomatic" <dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>: Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still re-encodes each instance of the source video. -- TOM HAINES Screenings | Originals Publicity M: 310.467.3069 | thaines(a)netflix.com 5808 W. Sunset Blvd, 5th fl | Los Angeles, CA 90028 _______________________________________________ DCPomatic mailing list DCPomatic(a)carlh.net http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic

Jim Dummett

9:26 p.m.

Hi Tom. A workaround would be: 1. Make a DCP from the source file repeated once only 2. Make 2nd DCP from the 1st DCP repeated multiple times When making a DCP from an existing DCP, DCP-o-matic does not re-encode the frames. This isn't quite what you asked for - if the content is repeated 10 times, the 2nd DCP will be 10 times larger than the 1st DCP - but at least the encoding will be approx 10 times faster. Hope that's some help. Jim On 18/06/2018 17:33, Tom Haines via DCPomatic wrote:

...

Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still re-encodes each instance of the source video. -- TOM HAINES Screenings | Originals Publicity M: 310.467.3069 <http://310.467.3069> | thaines(a)netflix.com <mailto:thaines@netflix.com> 5808 W. Sunset Blvd, 5th fl | Los Angeles, CA 90028 <https://maps.google.com/?q=5808+W.+Sunset+Blvd,+5th+fl+%7C+Los+Angeles,+CA+90028&entry=gmail&source=g> _______________________________________________ DCPomatic mailing list DCPomatic(a)carlh.net http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic

Carsten Kurz

19 Jun 19 Jun

1:14 p.m.

Am 18.06.2018 um 18:33 schrieb Tom Haines via DCPomatic:

...

I was thinking about that option lately as well, basically to allow long intermission slides, blacks, etc. with low storage needs, etc. Currently, as others pointed out, it is not possible. When thinking about it, I also tried to figure out how one could integrate that option in the existing GUI. One could have a checkbox 'reuse content', and specify a minimum length for it, so that e.g. 1min segments would be reused. However, let's see what Carl has to say about it. What I see from recent bugs and bug resolving is that creating reels and keeping up with all the increasing ambitions from subtitles, etc., this could become cumbersome to get working flawlessly. Especially since it is only used for very rare special applications. In the meantime, I was able to e.g. create long intermission slides by simply creating black with a very low bitrate (black is low anyway), and adding the intermission text as timed-text subtitle. It is possible to create such DCPs manually by editing CPLs, but one would have to recreate the hashes, etc. Maybe it would be possible to load such a modified, but formally broken DCP into DCP-o-matic and have DCP-o-matic just 'polish' it with new hashes, wrapping, but keeping the space saving reel re-use references. Maybe one could also write a simple tool that accomplishes this - feed a DCP with a single reel into it, tell it to re-reference it x times. That would only need simple text/string manipulation, none of the higher level functions of dcp-o-matic are needed. - Carsten

Carl Hetherington

27 Jun 27 Jun

3:47 p.m.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote:

...

Am 18.06.2018 um 18:33 schrieb Tom Haines via DCPomatic:

Carsten Kurz

4:12 p.m.

I would hesitate to make this happen automatically, since it could create unnecessary complex reel segmenting even when this is not intended. I guess there needs so be some parameter that sets the minimum reuse length, and you need to think how you deal with reel setting. Maybe enabling this reuse feature could be implemented as another reel option? - Carsten ...gesendet von unterwegs

...

Am 27.06.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic <dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote:

Am 18.06.2018 um 18:33 schrieb Tom Haines via DCPomatic: Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still re-encodes each instance of the source video.

It seems like a nice idea. I imagine it may even not need a UI at all... could we not just look for areas of the timeline that could be repeated and repeat them via a reel manipulation? https://dcpomatic.com/mantis/view.php?id=1330 All the best, Carl _______________________________________________ DCPomatic mailing list DCPomatic(a)carlh.net http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic

Carl Hetherington

7:23 p.m.

Maybe there's two related features here: 1. use of reels to reduce DCP size when there is long still-image (or black) content 2. use of reels to reduce DCP size when there is repeated content I was thinking more of #2, which could probably done silently (or almost silently). I agree that the same solution for #1 would probably be a bad idea. All the best, Carl On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote:

...

Am 27.06.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic <dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote:

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Carsten Kurz

28 Jun 28 Jun

11:50 a.m.

I would still opt to have an option to actively enable it, as another reel segmentation option. Maybe even 'split by content' could be a side switch for this? I think users should have the ultimate choice to control the reel structure. A bit hypothetical, but what if users want a strict 4GB reel segmentation due to storage media, but there is repeat content that is larger than 4GB? The problem is, some exotic cases may need/want reel re-use AND absolute reel size limit? Well, maybe too exotic... But then it would be good if both would only work exclusively, so the users notices he can only use either option. - Carsten ...gesendet von unterwegs

...

Am 27.06.2018 um 21:23 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic <dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>: Maybe there's two related features here: 1. use of reels to reduce DCP size when there is long still-image (or black) content 2. use of reels to reduce DCP size when there is repeated content I was thinking more of #2, which could probably done silently (or almost silently). I agree that the same solution for #1 would probably be a bad idea. All the best, Carl

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote: I would hesitate to make this happen automatically, since it could create unnecessary complex reel segmenting even when this is not intended. I guess there needs so be some parameter that sets the minimum reuse length, and you need to think how you deal with reel setting. Maybe enabling this reuse feature could be implemented as another reel option? - Carsten ...gesendet von unterwegs

Am 27.06.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic <dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>: On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote: > Am 18.06.2018 um 18:33 schrieb Tom Haines via DCPomatic: > > Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that > repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So > essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. > > I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and > then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still > re-encodes each instance of the source video. I was thinking about that option lately as well, basically to allow long intermission slides, blacks, etc. with low storage needs, etc. Currently, as others pointed out, it is not possible. When thinking about it, I also tried to figure out how one could integrate that option in the existing GUI. One could have a checkbox 'reuse content', and specify a minimum length for it, so that e.g. 1min segments would be reused. However, let's see what Carl has to say about it. What I see from recent bugs and bug resolving is that creating reels and keeping up with all the increasing ambitions from subtitles, etc., this could become cumbersome to get working flawlessly. Especially since it is only used for very rare special applications.

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Jim Dummett

3 Jul 3 Jul

12:10 p.m.

Just to agree with Carsten, for my purposes, I would prefer this to be "opt in". Except for exceptional cases, I like to produce all DCPs with as simple a format as possible - a single reel. The idea is to standardise the output so that all DCPs I produce are as similar to each other as possible. That (1) leaves less room for hitting a kink in a particular server's way of reading more complicated DCPs and (2) means if I send one DCP to a cinema and it plays, I know that every other DCP I send them should play too. Jim On 28/06/2018 12:50, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote:

...

> Am 27.06.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic <dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>: > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote: > > >> Am 18.06.2018 um 18:33 schrieb Tom Haines via DCPomatic: >> >> Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that >> repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So >> essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. >> >> I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and >> then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still >> re-encodes each instance of the source video. > I was thinking about that option lately as well, basically to allow long > intermission slides, blacks, etc. with low storage needs, etc. > > Currently, as others pointed out, it is not possible. When thinking > about it, I also tried to figure out how one could integrate that option > in the existing GUI. One could have a checkbox 'reuse content', and > specify a minimum length for it, so that e.g. 1min segments would be > reused. > > However, let's see what Carl has to say about it. What I see from recent > bugs and bug resolving is that creating reels and keeping up with all > the increasing ambitions from subtitles, etc., this could become > cumbersome to get working flawlessly. Especially since it is only used > for very rare special applications. It seems like a nice idea. I imagine it may even not need a UI at all... could we not just look for areas of the timeline that could be repeated and repeat them via a reel manipulation? https://dcpomatic.com/mantis/view.php?id=1330 All the best, Carl _______________________________________________ DCPomatic mailing list DCPomatic(a)carlh.net http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic

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Carl Hetherington

9:27 p.m.

Fair points, taken. On Tue, 3 Jul 2018, Jim Dummett via DCPomatic wrote:

...

I would still opt to have an option to actively enable it, as another reel

segmentation option. Maybe even 'split by content' could be a side switch for this? I think users should have the ultimate choice to control the reel structure. A bit hypothetical, but what if users want a strict 4GB reel segmentation due to storage media, but there is repeat content that is larger than 4GB?

The problem is, some exotic cases may need/want reel re-use AND absolute

reel size limit? Well, maybe too exotic... But then it would be good if both would only work exclusively, so the users notices he can only use either option.

- Carsten ...gesendet von unterwegs > Am 27.06.2018 um 21:23 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic

<dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>:

> > > Maybe there's two related features here: > > 1. use of reels to reduce DCP size when there is long still-image (or > black) content > > 2. use of reels to reduce DCP size when there is repeated content > > I was thinking more of #2, which could probably done silently (or almost > silently). I agree that the same solution for #1 would probably be a bad > idea. > > All the best, > Carl > >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote: >> >> I would hesitate to make this happen automatically, since it could >> create unnecessary complex reel segmenting even when this is not >> intended. I guess there needs so be some parameter that sets the minimum >> reuse length, and you need to think how you deal with reel setting. >> Maybe enabling this reuse feature could be implemented as another reel >> option? >> >> - Carsten >> >> ...gesendet von unterwegs >> >>>> Am 27.06.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Carl Hetherington via DCPomatic

<dcpomatic(a)carlh.net>et>:

>> >> On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, Carsten Kurz via DCPomatic wrote: >> >> >>> Am 18.06.2018 um 18:33 schrieb Tom Haines via DCPomatic: >>> >>> Does anyone know if it's possible to build a DCP with DCP-o-matic that >>> repeats a source file a number of times, but only encodes it once? So >>> essentially the CPL would point to the same asset multiple times. >>> >>> I'm adding the source video multiple times in the content tab, and >>> then selecting "split by video content" for reels. This still >>> re-encodes each instance of the source video. >> I was thinking about that option lately as well, basically to allow long >> intermission slides, blacks, etc. with low storage needs, etc. >> >> Currently, as others pointed out, it is not possible. When thinking >> about it, I also tried to figure out how one could integrate that option >> in the existing GUI. One could have a checkbox 'reuse content', and >> specify a minimum length for it, so that e.g. 1min segments would be >> reused. >> >> However, let's see what Carl has to say about it. What I see from recent >> bugs and bug resolving is that creating reels and keeping up with all >> the increasing ambitions from subtitles, etc., this could become >> cumbersome to get working flawlessly. Especially since it is only used >> for very rare special applications. > It seems like a nice idea. I imagine it may even not need a UI at all... > could we not just look for areas of the timeline that could be repeated > and repeat them via a reel manipulation? > > https://dcpomatic.com/mantis/view.php?id=1330 > > All the best, > Carl > > _______________________________________________ > DCPomatic mailing list > DCPomatic(a)carlh.net > http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic _______________________________________________ DCPomatic mailing list DCPomatic(a)carlh.net http://main.carlh.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dcpomatic

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participants (5)

Carl Hetherington
Carsten Kurz
iva_co
Jim Dummett
Tom Haines