28 Apr
2013
28 Apr
'13
9:57 a.m.
Good day!
One of the theatres I'm involved with is in need of a preview for a special booking we
have upcoming, and the only one we had access to in a reasonable format was in 60 FPS, but
since this preview is to be used with a DSS100/DSP100 which does not like anything but 24
FPS, I was attempting to use DVD-o-matic 0.87 x64 Windows version (I have also tried
earlier versions before now to the same effect) to change it to 24 FPS, and the outcome
was that the audio sounded at least an octave lower. As it is important for our managers
to be able to do this with a minimum of fuss and perhaps as streamlined a process as
possible, I was wondering if there was something I was doing wrong, or if there is a
process to follow for such things. I have found this to be an issue for me before now, but
I was hoping that perhaps it was simply that I have done something in error.
Also, I was noticing that when I'm converting some video into DCP, DVD-o-matic will
change the audio (for 23.976 FPS or 24 FPS, 44.1kHz is adjusted to 48kHz (doesn't seem
to sound odd), for 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS, 44.1 kHz is adjusted to 59940Hz (becomes a lower
octave, which I cannot use, 30 FPS to 24 FPS takes the audio from 44.1kHz to 60kHz
(can't use), and finally 59.94 FPS to 24 FPS changes the audio from 44.1kHz to 59940Hz
(also cannot use - deeper again) ( I would have thought that the 60 FPS would be even
higher than 30 FPS).) Is there a reason that even if the video is at the frame rate I
want, the sound still gets adjusted, and if I'm changing the frame rate, the audio
resample goes up, but the sound becomes deeper? I would have thought the sound would
becoming more shrill, if anything.
Again, I love this program, and the efforts being put into it is amazing, and I'm
willing to assume I'm messing something up. I just would like it if I didn't need
to use a different program to 'pre-adjust' frame rates to get the audio to sound
like the original.
Thank you for all the work you do,
Leslie Hartmier
28 Apr
28 Apr
10:15 a.m.
At 60fps and with a DSS100, I would advise to play it from an external player - PC,
mediaplayer, whatever, through the projectors DVI input.
Not that it isn't possible to do this conversion, but with the DSS100 not being able
to play 60fps and 30fps, there is little chance for a graceful conversion to this target
system. It would need high quality temporal interpolation and, depending on the footage,
may still show judder, smearing or ghosting afterwards.
Is it actually 60p or 60/30i ?
- Carsten
Am 28.04.2013 um 11:57 schrieb Leslie Hartmier:
Good day!
One of the theatres I'm involved with is in need of a preview for a special booking
we have upcoming, and the only one we had access to in a reasonable format was in 60 FPS,
but since this preview is to be used with a DSS100/DSP100 which does not like anything but
24 FPS, I was attempting to use DVD-o-matic 0.87 x64 Windows version (I have also tried
earlier versions before now to the same effect) to change it to 24 FPS, and the outcome
was that the audio sounded at least an octave lower. As it is important for our managers
to be able to do this with a minimum of fuss and perhaps as streamlined a process as
possible, I was wondering if there was something I was doing wrong, or if there is a
process to follow for such things. I have found this to be an issue for me before now,
but I was hoping that perhaps it was simply that I have done something in error.
Also, I was noticing that when I'm converting some video into DCP, DVD-o-matic will
change the audio (for 23.976 FPS or 24 FPS, 44.1kHz is adjusted to 48kHz (doesn't seem
to sound odd), for 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS, 44.1 kHz is adjusted to 59940Hz (becomes a lower
octave, which I cannot use, 30 FPS to 24 FPS takes the audio from 44.1kHz to 60kHz
(can't use), and finally 59.94 FPS to 24 FPS changes the audio from 44.1kHz to 59940Hz
(also cannot use - deeper again) ( I would have thought that the 60 FPS would be even
higher than 30 FPS).) Is there a reason that even if the video is at the frame rate I
want, the sound still gets adjusted, and if I'm changing the frame rate, the audio
resample goes up, but the sound becomes deeper? I would have thought the sound would
becoming more shrill, if anything.
Again, I love this program, and the efforts being put into it is amazing, and I'm
willing to assume I'm messing something up. I just would like it if I didn't need
to use a different program to 'pre-adjust' frame rates to get the audio to sound
like the original.
Thank you for all the work you do,
Leslie Hartmier
_______________________________________________
DVDomatic mailing list
DVDomatic(a)carlh.net
http://carlh.dnsalias.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dvdomatic
11:43 a.m.
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Leslie Hartmier wrote:
Good day! One of the theatres I'm involved with
is in need of a
preview for a special booking we have upcoming, and the only one we had
access to in a reasonable format was in 60 FPS, but since this preview
is to be used with a DSS100/DSP100 which does not like anything but 24
FPS, I was attempting to use DVD-o-matic 0.87 x64 Windows version (I
have also tried earlier versions before now to the same effect) to
change it to 24 FPS, and the outcome was that the audio sounded at least
an octave lower. As it is important for our managers to be able to do
this with a minimum of fuss and perhaps as streamlined a process as
possible, I was wondering if there was something I was doing wrong, or
if there is a process to follow for such things. I have found this to
be an issue for me before now, but I was hoping that perhaps it was
simply that I have done something in error.
Also, I was noticing that when I'm converting some video into DCP,
DVD-o-matic will change the audio (for 23.976 FPS or 24 FPS, 44.1kHz is
adjusted to 48kHz (doesn't seem to sound odd), for 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS,
44.1 kHz is adjusted to 59940Hz (becomes a lower octave, which I cannot
use, 30 FPS to 24 FPS takes the audio from 44.1kHz to 60kHz (can't use),
and finally 59.94 FPS to 24 FPS changes the audio from 44.1kHz to
59940Hz (also cannot use - deeper again) ( I would have thought that the
60 FPS would be even higher than 30 FPS).) Is there a reason that even
if the video is at the frame rate I want, the sound still gets adjusted,
and if I'm changing the frame rate, the audio resample goes up, but the
sound becomes deeper? I would have thought the sound would becoming more
shrill, if anything.
Hello Leslie,
What DVD-o-matic is doing with respect to the audio is trying to keep it
in sync. Say for example you have a 29.97fps video which you are playing
at 24fps. DVD-o-matic does not do any resampling of the video content, so
the projector will end up simply playing the frames from the 29.97fps
video at 24fps. To be honest, I would expect this to look pretty bad
anyway...!
Since the video is being played slowly, so must the audio, otherwise
it will not stay in sync with the video. To do this, DVD-o-matic
resamples that audio to a higher sample rate than the projector will use
to play it back. Then, on playback, the audio will be slow to match the
slow video.
As far as I can see, this is your problem: you have a 60fps video.
DVD-o-matic should decide to play every other frame of it (getting it down
to 30fps without any serious problem) but then if you ask for 24fps output
it will have to play the video and audio slowly so that it hits 24fps.
I think there are two solutions to this problem:
1. Re-sample (frame-rate-adjust) the video. I don't think DVD-o-matic is
going to get into this minefield any time soon!
2. Time-stretch the audio, rather than re-sampling it. This is easier,
but still an inexact science.
Having said all that, the first question would be: does the video look ok
when you have run it though DVD-o-matic (ignoring the sound)? Does it not
run much too slowly?
Best regards
Carl
29 Apr
29 Apr
5:17 a.m.
Video looks fine when run through DVD-o-matic (sound notwithstanding), and no, it does not
run too slowly. It's actually the same play length as before I converted it.
I ran the previews I created (I converted the 60 fps video using Aiseesoft Total Media
Converter Platinum to a 24 fps (left the sample rate at 2 channel AAC @ 44.1kHz) .MOV at
1920x1080) on the Dolby DSS100, and it looked fantastic. I imagine it might not at 4k, but
2k certainly came out gorgeous after processing through DVD-o-matic, and it sounds great.
Now that I know it'd be a gong show to try to have DVD-o-matic try to perform
miracles, I can simply go to the higher ups and tell them that it's not reasonable to
expect a one button solution when we're expecting to have to convert various formats.
I tried it on an NEC NC1200C/GDC SX2100, an NEC 2500S/Dolby DSS100, an NEC NC900C/Doremi
ShowVault4, which covers all the content servers we use (I'll likely attempt to see
how it looks on the Christie CP2210s, Christie ZX2000, and Barco DP100s when/if I am at
those locations.)
Again, thank you for all your amazing work, gentlemen, and thank you for the insights. I
knew I could convert using an external program, but I did not understand how DVD-o-matic
would react to what I was trying to do.
Just for reference, I haven't had enough time to consider what name I would think best
suits this program. DCP-o-matic, perhaps? <grin>
Leslie Hartmier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Hetherington" <cth(a)carlh.net>
To: "Leslie Hartmier" <leslieh1(a)shaw.ca>
Cc: dvdomatic(a)carlh.net
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:43:04 AM
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Leslie Hartmier wrote:
Good day! One of the theatres I'm involved with is
in need of a
preview for a special booking we have upcoming, and the only one we had
access to in a reasonable format was in 60 FPS, but since this preview
is to be used with a DSS100/DSP100 which does not like anything but 24
FPS, I was attempting to use DVD-o-matic 0.87 x64 Windows version (I
have also tried earlier versions before now to the same effect) to
change it to 24 FPS, and the outcome was that the audio sounded at least
an octave lower. As it is important for our managers to be able to do
this with a minimum of fuss and perhaps as streamlined a process as
possible, I was wondering if there was something I was doing wrong, or
if there is a process to follow for such things. I have found this to
be an issue for me before now, but I was hoping that perhaps it was
simply that I have done something in error.
Also, I was noticing that when I'm converting some video into DCP,
DVD-o-matic will change the audio (for 23.976 FPS or 24 FPS, 44.1kHz is
adjusted to 48kHz (doesn't seem to sound odd), for 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS,
44.1 kHz is adjusted to 59940Hz (becomes a lower octave, which I cannot
use, 30 FPS to 24 FPS takes the audio from 44.1kHz to 60kHz (can't use),
and finally 59.94 FPS to 24 FPS changes the audio from 44.1kHz to
59940Hz (also cannot use - deeper again) ( I would have thought that the
60 FPS would be even higher than 30 FPS).) Is there a reason that even
if the video is at the frame rate I want, the sound still gets adjusted,
and if I'm changing the frame rate, the audio resample goes up, but the
sound becomes deeper? I would have thought the sound would becoming more
shrill, if anything.
Hello Leslie,
What DVD-o-matic is doing with respect to the audio is trying to keep it
in sync. Say for example you have a 29.97fps video which you are playing
at 24fps. DVD-o-matic does not do any resampling of the video content, so
the projector will end up simply playing the frames from the 29.97fps
video at 24fps. To be honest, I would expect this to look pretty bad
anyway...!
Since the video is being played slowly, so must the audio, otherwise
it will not stay in sync with the video. To do this, DVD-o-matic
resamples that audio to a higher sample rate than the projector will use
to play it back. Then, on playback, the audio will be slow to match the
slow video.
As far as I can see, this is your problem: you have a 60fps video.
DVD-o-matic should decide to play every other frame of it (getting it down
to 30fps without any serious problem) but then if you ask for 24fps output
it will have to play the video and audio slowly so that it hits 24fps.
I think there are two solutions to this problem:
1. Re-sample (frame-rate-adjust) the video. I don't think DVD-o-matic is
going to get into this minefield any time soon!
2. Time-stretch the audio, rather than re-sampling it. This is easier,
but still an inexact science.
Having said all that, the first question would be: does the video look ok
when you have run it though DVD-o-matic (ignoring the sound)? Does it not
run much too slowly?
Best regards
Carl
8:42 a.m.
Hi Leslie
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Leslie Hartmier wrote:
Video looks fine when run through DVD-o-matic (sound
notwithstanding),
and no, it does not run too slowly. It's actually the same play length
as before I converted it.
So you started with a 60fps video, put it into straight into DVD-o-matic
(selecting 24fps) and the result had the same play length?
How big is this source file? Is there any chance I could get a copy to
test with?
I ran the previews I created (I converted the 60 fps
video using
Aiseesoft Total Media Converter Platinum to a 24 fps (left the sample
rate at 2 channel AAC @ 44.1kHz) .MOV at 1920x1080) on the Dolby DSS100,
and it looked fantastic. I imagine it might not at 4k, but 2k certainly
came out gorgeous after processing through DVD-o-matic, and it sounds
great.
OK, well that's something :)
Now that I know it'd be a gong show to try to have
DVD-o-matic try to
perform miracles, I can simply go to the higher ups and tell them that
it's not reasonable to expect a one button solution when we're expecting
to have to convert various formats. I tried it on an NEC NC1200C/GDC
SX2100, an NEC 2500S/Dolby DSS100, an NEC NC900C/Doremi ShowVault4,
which covers all the content servers we use (I'll likely attempt to see
how it looks on the Christie CP2210s, Christie ZX2000, and Barco DP100s
when/if I am at those locations.)
Again, thank you for all your amazing work, gentlemen, and thank you for
the insights. I knew I could convert using an external program, but I
did not understand how DVD-o-matic would react to what I was trying to
do.
I'm happy to look into frame-rate changes / audio pitch shifting, which
would make DVD-o-matic into a one-click solution for this problem, but I
have to confess it's not really a priority... I hope the need to do these
things will drop as more projectors support 25 and 30 fps.
If it's a commercial necessity to be able to do it now (or soon!) feel
free to talk to me off-list and we may be able to come to some
arrangement.
Just for reference, I haven't had enough time to
consider what name I
would think best suits this program. DCP-o-matic, perhaps? <grin>
That name change is coming soon :)
Regards
Carl
Leslie Hartmier
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Hetherington" <cth(a)carlh.net>
To: "Leslie Hartmier" <leslieh1(a)shaw.ca>
Cc: dvdomatic(a)carlh.net
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:43:04 AM
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Leslie Hartmier wrote:
Good day! One of the theatres I'm involved
with is in need of a
preview for a special booking we have upcoming, and the only one we had
access to in a reasonable format was in 60 FPS, but since this preview
is to be used with a DSS100/DSP100 which does not like anything but 24
FPS, I was attempting to use DVD-o-matic 0.87 x64 Windows version (I
have also tried earlier versions before now to the same effect) to
change it to 24 FPS, and the outcome was that the audio sounded at least
an octave lower. As it is important for our managers to be able to do
this with a minimum of fuss and perhaps as streamlined a process as
possible, I was wondering if there was something I was doing wrong, or
if there is a process to follow for such things. I have found this to
be an issue for me before now, but I was hoping that perhaps it was
simply that I have done something in error.
Also, I was noticing that when I'm converting some video into DCP,
DVD-o-matic will change the audio (for 23.976 FPS or 24 FPS, 44.1kHz is
adjusted to 48kHz (doesn't seem to sound odd), for 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS,
44.1 kHz is adjusted to 59940Hz (becomes a lower octave, which I cannot
use, 30 FPS to 24 FPS takes the audio from 44.1kHz to 60kHz (can't use),
and finally 59.94 FPS to 24 FPS changes the audio from 44.1kHz to
59940Hz (also cannot use - deeper again) ( I would have thought that the
60 FPS would be even higher than 30 FPS).) Is there a reason that even
if the video is at the frame rate I want, the sound still gets adjusted,
and if I'm changing the frame rate, the audio resample goes up, but the
sound becomes deeper? I would have thought the sound would becoming more
shrill, if anything.
Hello Leslie,
What DVD-o-matic is doing with respect to the audio is trying to keep it
in sync. Say for example you have a 29.97fps video which you are playing
at 24fps. DVD-o-matic does not do any resampling of the video content, so
the projector will end up simply playing the frames from the 29.97fps
video at 24fps. To be honest, I would expect this to look pretty bad
anyway...!
Since the video is being played slowly, so must the audio, otherwise
it will not stay in sync with the video. To do this, DVD-o-matic
resamples that audio to a higher sample rate than the projector will use
to play it back. Then, on playback, the audio will be slow to match the
slow video.
As far as I can see, this is your problem: you have a 60fps video.
DVD-o-matic should decide to play every other frame of it (getting it down
to 30fps without any serious problem) but then if you ask for 24fps output
it will have to play the video and audio slowly so that it hits 24fps.
I think there are two solutions to this problem:
1. Re-sample (frame-rate-adjust) the video. I don't think DVD-o-matic is
going to get into this minefield any time soon!
2. Time-stretch the audio, rather than re-sampling it. This is easier,
but still an inexact science.
Having said all that, the first question would be: does the video look ok
when you have run it though DVD-o-matic (ignoring the sound)? Does it not
run much too slowly?
Best regards
Carl
10:10 a.m.
Am 29.04.2013 um 07:17 schrieb Leslie Hartmier:
Video looks fine when run through DVD-o-matic (sound
notwithstanding), and no, it does not run too slowly. It's actually the same play
length as before I converted it.
I ran the previews I created (I converted the 60 fps video using Aiseesoft Total Media
Converter Platinum to a 24 fps (left the sample rate at 2 channel AAC @ 44.1kHz) .MOV at
1920x1080) on
Okay, but that means you are not feeding 60fps video to DVD-o-matic, but 24fps from the
Total Media Converter that you use in an intermediate conversion step?
In that case we don't know exactly what this Media Converter does, but at least I
understand why the runtime is the same afterwards.
However, I don't know then why the sound doesn't work? If you also run the sound
through this Total Media Converter, It should either be referenced to 24fps afterwards/and
or upsampled to 48kHz as well?
I guess I don't understand your processing pipeline?!
- Carsten
3:05 p.m.
I must have been unclear. I am using the converter as an intermediate step because I
cannot get the audio to sound right. If I use the converter, all comes out fine. I was
trying to avoid using the intermediate step, hence the email to the mailing list. :)
Leslie
-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
Sender: dvdomatic-bounces(a)carlh.net
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:10:15
To: <dvdomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
_______________________________________________
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DVDomatic(a)carlh.net
http://carlh.dnsalias.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dvdomatic
3:25 p.m.
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, leslieh1(a)shaw.ca wrote:
I must have been unclear. I am using the converter as
an intermediate
step because I cannot get the audio to sound right. If I use the
converter, all comes out fine. I was trying to avoid using the
intermediate step, hence the email to the mailing list. :)
Hi Leslie,
OK, that's clear. My question was: does the video look ok if you do *not*
use the converter as an intermediate step? If so, the fix to DVD-o-matic
would be just to pitch-shift the audio, which is probably easier than
trying to fix the video as well.
Best
Carl
Leslie
-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
Sender: dvdomatic-bounces(a)carlh.net
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:10:15
To: <dvdomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
_______________________________________________
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8:56 p.m.
No, it appears I am a fool. <grin> I just created the DCP from the original 60 fps
.mp4, and it is slower as a DCP than it is for the original video. Mind you, it seems that
the DCP goes only so far, then stops creating it as well, but only if I attempt to change
to 24 fps using DVD-o-matic; if I leave it at 60 fps,, it creates it just fine. If anyone
wants to see what I am talking about, I've put the original file on our FTP server -
ftp://ftp.its-tech.ca, no login required to get it, if you're remotely interested in
it. It is ~135 mb.
Leslie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Hetherington" <cth(a)carlh.net>
To: leslieh1(a)shaw.ca
Cc: dvdomatic(a)carlh.net
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:25:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, leslieh1(a)shaw.ca wrote:
I must have been unclear. I am using the converter as
an intermediate
step because I cannot get the audio to sound right. If I use the
converter, all comes out fine. I was trying to avoid using the
intermediate step, hence the email to the mailing list. :)
Hi Leslie,
OK, that's clear. My question was: does the video look ok if you do *not*
use the converter as an intermediate step? If so, the fix to DVD-o-matic
would be just to pitch-shift the audio, which is probably easier than
trying to fix the video as well.
Best
Carl
Leslie
-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Kurz <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
Sender: dvdomatic-bounces(a)carlh.net
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:10:15
To: <dvdomatic(a)carlh.net>
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
_______________________________________________
DVDomatic mailing list
DVDomatic(a)carlh.net
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_______________________________________________
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11:07 p.m.
Am 29.04.2013 um 22:56 schrieb Leslie Hartmier:
If anyone wants to see what I am talking about,
I've put the original file on our FTP server - ftp://ftp.its-tech.ca, no login
required to get it, if you're remotely interested in it. It is ~135 mb.
That is a movie trailer for the re-release and should be based on 24fps footage. Why did
someone make it into a 60fps version (actually it's 59,94) that now needs to be
converted back to 24fps?
- Carsten
11:27 p.m.
That's a question I had which no one ever had an answer to.
Leslie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Kurz" <audiovisual(a)t-online.de>
To: dvdomatic(a)carlh.net
Sent: Monday, 29 April, 2013 5:07:01 PM
Subject: Re: [DVD-o-matic] A couple questions...
Am 29.04.2013 um 22:56 schrieb Leslie Hartmier:
If anyone wants to see what I am talking about, I've put the original file on our FTP
server - ftp://ftp.its-tech.ca , no login required to get it, if you're remotely
interested in it. It is ~135 mb.
That is a movie trailer for the re-release and should be based on 24fps footage. Why did
someone make it into a 60fps version (actually it's 59,94) that now needs to be
converted back to 24fps?
- Carsten
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days old
10 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Carl Hetherington -
Carsten Kurz -
Leslie Hartmier -
leslieh1＠shaw.ca