16 May
2013
16 May
'13
12:04 p.m.
Hi there, new problems (and problem solved)
The source file this time was messy. A scanned 16mm documentary from the
past. Sound was mono, but in the source file it was panned hard left in
Dolby AC3 (2-channel). Right was silent.
I pulled the AC3-track, converted it to mono (wav) and put it as external
audio into DVD-o-matic on center channel. The other channels were left
unchecked. DCP seemed OK, ingested fine on Dolby DSS200/220 (4.6.0 (13)) no
problems when selecting it for playback but when hitting play everything
crapped out. "No connection with Cat745", "Transport not available"
and so
on.
Wasn´t there something about the allowed number of tracks in a DCP package?
Hm.
New try. This time I made an extra soundtrack with digital silence from the
mono track. Checked every channel in external audio. Sound on center,
silence on the other five. The DCP played just fine.
Would it be possible for DVD-o-matic to automatically create silent tracks
where needed when using external audio?
*/Magnus Eriksson*
16 May
16 May
3:23 p.m.
Hi.
It would indeed be a good feature to have dvd-o-matic auto generate silent
waves and add it in case of no (or to few) audio channels in the input file.
SMPTE dcp's require a sound essence, so this feature is absolutely
something that would help make the dcp workflow faster and secure more
dcp's are created with within specs :-)
Best regards, Jonathan
On 16 May 2013 14:09, "Magnus Eriksson" <telegrafverket(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there, new problems (and problem solved)
The source file this time was messy. A scanned 16mm documentary from the
past. Sound was mono, but in the source file it was panned hard left in
Dolby AC3 (2-channel). Right was silent.
I pulled the AC3-track, converted it to mono (wav) and put it as external
audio into DVD-o-matic on center channel. The other channels were left
unchecked. DCP seemed OK, ingested fine on Dolby DSS200/220 (4.6.0 (13)) no
problems when selecting it for playback but when hitting play everything
crapped out. "No connection with Cat745", "Transport not available"
and so
on.
Wasn´t there something about the allowed number of tracks in a DCP
package? Hm.
New try. This time I made an extra soundtrack with digital silence from
the mono track. Checked every channel in external audio. Sound on center,
silence on the other five. The DCP played just fine.
Would it be possible for DVD-o-matic to automatically create silent tracks
where needed when using external audio?
*/Magnus Eriksson*
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DVDomatic(a)carlh.net
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3:31 p.m.
Hi !
The same joke happened to me long ago, also with openDCP.
There has to be an even number of tracks.
With Doremi DCP2000 servers if you have only one channel, you'll have no
error displayed but only kind of hurting pink noise while playing back.
Since I'm used to always fill with silence tracks. And therefore it
would be very comfortable if silent track were created automatically...
Bravo again...
Gérald.
Le 16/05/2013 14:04, Magnus Eriksson a écrit :
Hi there, new problems (and problem solved)
The source file this time was messy. A scanned 16mm documentary from
the past. Sound was mono, but in the source file it was panned hard
left in Dolby AC3 (2-channel). Right was silent.
I pulled the AC3-track, converted it to mono (wav) and put it as
external audio into DVD-o-matic on center channel. The other channels
were left unchecked. DCP seemed OK, ingested fine on Dolby DSS200/220
(4.6.0 (13)) no problems when selecting it for playback but when
hitting play everything crapped out. "No connection with Cat745",
"Transport not available" and so on.
Wasn´t there something about the allowed number of tracks in a DCP
package? Hm.
New try. This time I made an extra soundtrack with digital silence
from the mono track. Checked every channel in external audio. Sound on
center, silence on the other five. The DCP played just fine.
Would it be possible for DVD-o-matic to automatically create silent
tracks where needed when using external audio?
*/Magnus Eriksson*
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DVDomatic(a)carlh.net
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4:53 p.m.
Am 16.05.2013 um 17:31 schrieb Gérald Maruccia:
There has to be an even number of tracks.
Is that true? In that case the only way to make a 'proper' mono DCP of a classic,
one would have to create at least a 4track DCP with three silent channels?
Or would a C+L/R or C+LFE work?
I remember a discussion on Film-Tech about the fact that a lot of commercial mono classic
releases seem to be issued in L/R Dual-Mono, which is plain wrong...
- Carsten
5:23 p.m.
I think I've read that here
http://dcimovies.com/specification/DCI_DCSS_v12_with_errata_2012-1010.pdf
155 pages...
In case of mono I might go for a C+LFE which sounds more "natural" to me
(I think most of Woody Allen' movies, dcp or 35mm, have only Center channel)
You'll have to provide 4 silent tracks for channels 1,2,5 and 6.
Le 16/05/2013 18:53, Carsten Kurz a écrit :
Am 16.05.2013 um 17:31 schrieb Gérald Maruccia:
There has to be an even number of tracks.
Is that true? In that case the only way to make a 'proper' mono DCP of
a classic, one would have to create at least a 4track DCP with three
silent channels?
Or would a C+L/R or C+LFE work?
I remember a discussion on Film-Tech about the fact that a lot of
commercial mono classic releases seem to be issued in L/R Dual-Mono,
which is plain wrong...
- Carsten
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5:35 p.m.
Am 16.05.2013 um 19:23 schrieb Gérald Maruccia:
I think I've read that here
http://dcimovies.com/specification/DCI_DCSS_v12_with_errata_2012-1010.pdf
I read all DCI specs and actually never found a clear word on minimum channel count
requirements. Unfortunately, the recent edition of the DCI spec links to SMPTE specs very
often now instead of giving detailed definitions in itself. I don't have the money to
afford these specs ;-)
True, you're on the safe side only with a stereo or 5.1 channel setup and silent
channel fills.
DCI/SMPTE left aside, the servers may still all behave different depending on brand or
software version.
Wolfgang?
- Carsten
5:52 p.m.
Am 16.05.2013 um 18:53 schrieb Carsten Kurz:
I remember a discussion on Film-Tech about the fact
that a lot of commercial mono classic releases seem to be issued in L/R Dual-Mono, which
is plain wrong...
Here it is:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=00…
- Carsten
6:05 p.m.
Here's a statement from Terrence in this thread:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=00…
'One of the issues with DCPs is there is no Mono option. It's stereo, then
additional channels in even increments. So really, you'd go from stereo to 5.1, then
7.1 and so on. If you wanted mono, you'd need to create a 5.1 DCP with silence tracks
on everything but the center. Kind of a pain.'
- Carsten
17 May
17 May
8:56 a.m.
On Thu, 16 May 2013, Carsten Kurz wrote:
Here's a statement from Terrence in this thread:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=00…
'One of the issues with DCPs is there is no Mono option. It's stereo, then
additional channels in even increments. So really, you'd go from stereo to 5.1, then
7.1 and so on. If you wanted mono, you'd need to create a 5.1 DCP with
silence tracks on everything but the center. Kind of a pain.'
- Carsten
I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always output 5.1 or 7.1, inserting
silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one particular server
(can't remember which) will not even play stereo audio ...
Any objections to that?
Best
Carl
9:08 a.m.
That sounds wise !
Le 17/05/2013 10:56, Carl Hetherington a écrit :
On Thu, 16 May 2013, Carsten Kurz wrote:
Here's a statement from Terrence in this
thread:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=00…
'One of the issues with DCPs is there is no Mono option. It's stereo,
then additional channels in even increments. So really, you'd go from
stereo to 5.1, then 7.1 and so on. If you wanted mono, you'd need to
create a 5.1 DCP with
silence tracks on everything but the center. Kind of a pain.'
- Carsten
I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always output 5.1 or 7.1,
inserting silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one
particular server (can't remember which) will not even play stereo
audio ...
Any objections to that?
Best
Carl
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9:59 a.m.
Sounds good to me :-)
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Gérald Maruccia
<gerald.maruccia(a)yahoo.fr>wrote;wrote:
That sounds wise !
Le 17/05/2013 10:56, Carl Hetherington a écrit :
On Thu, 16 May 2013, Carsten Kurz wrote:
Here's a statement from Terrence in this thread:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=00…
'One of the issues with DCPs is there is no Mono option. It's stereo, then
additional channels in even increments. So really, you'd go from stereo to
5.1, then 7.1 and so on. If you wanted mono, you'd need to create a 5.1 DCP
with
silence tracks on everything but the center. Kind of a pain.'
- Carsten
I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always output 5.1 or 7.1, inserting
silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one particular server
(can't remember which) will not even play stereo audio ...
Any objections to that?
Best
Carl
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12:29 p.m.
File size looked like a concern to me, but sound is proportionally
soooo small. I'm OK with the 5.1 output, and will be ultrahappy with a
fake 5.1 output option :D
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always
output 5.1 or 7.1, inserting
silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one particular server
(can't remember which) will not even play stereo audio ...
Any objections to that?
Best
Carl
2:48 p.m.
Am 17.05.2013 um 10:56 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always
output 5.1 or 7.1, inserting silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one
particular server (can't remember which) will not even play stereo audio ...
Any objections to that?
Hmm. checkbox 'optionally' ? Something like 'pad unallocated channels with
silence?'
- Carsten
18 May
18 May
11:04 p.m.
On Fri, 17 May 2013, Carsten Kurz wrote:
Am 17.05.2013 um 10:56 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
What are the situations where you would leave that un-ticked? I'm just
asking to try to avoid options if possible ...
Best
Carl
I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always
output 5.1 or 7.1, inserting silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one
particular server (can't remember which) will not even play stereo audio ...
Any objections to that?
Hmm. checkbox 'optionally' ? Something like 'pad unallocated channels with
silence?'
11:18 p.m.
If content is stereo, some sound processors can work out a 5.1 output
on the fly. If it receives 6 channels already, it will not do it.
Not an usual setup, not even sure if will work just like that and with
wich processors, and that stereo processing can be forced with a
macro.
Also if file size is a mayor concern, like small projects digitally
distributed, that certainly are in the target audience of dvdomatic.
Manuel AC
PS: can we please have configured "reply to the list" as default?
On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013, Carsten Kurz wrote:
Am 17.05.2013 um 10:56 schrieb Carl Hetherington:
What are the situations where you would leave that un-ticked? I'm just
asking to try to avoid options if possible ...
Best
Carl
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http://carlh.dnsalias.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dvdomatic I'm inclined to just make DVD-o-matic always
output 5.1 or 7.1, inserting
silence as appropriate. I have had a report where one particular server
(can't remember which) will not even play stereo audio ...
Any objections to that?
Hmm. checkbox 'optionally' ? Something like 'pad unallocated channels with
silence?' 
11:27 p.m.
On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Carl Hetherington <cth(a)carlh.net> wrote:
The problem with silence-padded channels is that the person playing
the DCP don't know which channels actually contains meaningful audio
without a test run. For example, with just two channels you can be
relatively sure that it's Lt/Rt stereo, or at least plain stereo.
OTOH, 2-channel stereo is not a suitable audio mix for a cinema
auditorium because of the problem with a "phantom center" in a room of
this size.
It is possible with some cinema processors/media adapters to do a pro
logic decode of a two-channel DCP. But it would be nice to get a hint
if the material is suitably for that, i.e. the number of channels with
non-silence audio.
-mattias
PS. AMPAS has LCR as a minimum requirement:
"The audio in a typical Digital Cinema Package (DCP) is 5.1 channels
of discrete audio and that is the preferred audio configuration,
although up to 7.1 channels is acceptable. The minimum for a non-mono
configuration of the audio shall be three channels as Left, Center,
Right (a Left/Right configuration is not acceptable in a theatrical
environment)."
http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/rules/86/rule11.html
Hmm. checkbox
'optionally' ? Something like 'pad unallocated channels with
silence?'
What are the situations where you would leave that un-ticked? I'm just
asking to try to avoid options if possible ... 
20 May
20 May
5:45 a.m.
The problem with silence-padded channels is that the
person playing
the DCP don't know which channels actually contains meaningful audio
without a test run.
dcp_inspect will tell us, in the not too distant future. It's been on the todo list
for some time. This and your suggestion to detect true image dimensions
(https://github.com/wolfgangw/backports/issues/21) coming up.
Wolfgang
dcp_inspect: https://github.com/wolfgangw/backports#readme
16 Jun
16 Jun
12:49 a.m.
Am 16.05.2013 um 20:05 schrieb Carsten Kurz:
Here's a statement from Terrence in this thread:
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=00…
'One of the issues with DCPs is there is no Mono option. It's stereo, then
additional channels in even increments. So really, you'd go from stereo to 5.1, then
7.1 and so on. If you wanted mono, you'd need to create a 5.1 DCP with silence tracks
on everything but the center. Kind of a pain.'
Hmm, interesting - version 8.3 of the Digital Cinema Naming Convention is out, and it
documents an Audio Type 10=Center Channel Mono
http://digitalcinemanamingconvention.com/unabridged.asp#tips
Why would they do that if it's not allowed?
- Carsten
4382
days inactive
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18 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Carl Hetherington -
Carsten Kurz -
Gérald Maruccia -
Jonathan K. F. Jensen -
Magnus Eriksson -
Manuel AC -
Mattias Mattsson -
Wolfgang Woehl